Question about the "new" pistols

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Motorjock721, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Motorjock721

    Motorjock721 New Member

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    Ok,

    If I were to want to purchase a "new" Caracal,,,, ( F or C model) can I do that now through a dealer or has Caracal stopped selling them until all the recall/replacement/refund stuff has been settled?

    I am waiting on a refund right now, but I really want to get another,,,,,I miss my F :-(
     
  2. Mark G.

    Mark G. New Member

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    The lady I talked with yesterday said just about everything is on hold until the recall gets taken care of. The subcompact will not be hitting the market either for a while. She also said the returned guns will be fixed & then put back on the market. The returned pistols will be sent back to UAE to be repaired. Can't happen soon enough for me!! ;)
     

  3. Motorjock721

    Motorjock721 New Member

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    Thanks Mark for the info.
     
  4. tfunster

    tfunster New Member

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    That's nice.

    So I return my Caracal for replacement or for a complete refund, it then gets repaired and re-sold to someone, somewhere with the same serial number that was originally registered to me?
    Doesn't sound very good to me.
     
  5. Predecessor

    Predecessor New Member

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    Re: That's nice.

    Shouldn't be a problem if Caracal keeps good track of their records.

    This is how the process of a firearms trace made on a pistol used in a crime works:

    1) LE provides serial number and manufacturer to ATF to perform firearms trace.

    2) ATF contacts Manufacturer first, in this case Caracal-USA - Caracal then tells ATF what distributor they sold the gun to. Caracal should give the most recent data on the serial number to the ATF and your name will never come up in the conversation. Should an employee of Caracal-USA look at the wrong ledger and provide the distributor who bought the pistol the first time to the ATF, you could find yourself with a little knock on the door :twisted:
     
  6. jhb

    jhb Member

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    I don't know fellows. Seems to me caracal will send us new pistols and take the recalled ones and sell them as refurbs.............seems wrong to me to send back out used pistols that weren't possibly yours to begin with. I say this as someone might have a collector they didn't shoot....and they bought a new pistol. Why should they get back a used pistol that might have had 5k+ worth of shots through it? Maybe I'm thinking too much how I would handle it if it were my business? Not like a large corporation?

    It would be nice if someone from caracal uae would post some official info on the plan so we wouldn't have to guess and speculate? Although it is fun discussing theories......but still be nice to hear first hand rather than 4th hand from caracal uae employee, through sai employee, through consumer and on to the forum. That many people involved , things tend to get warped normally.
     
  7. okie67

    okie67 Member

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    What I don't understand is why ship them back to the UAE for repair then back here to sell? I have a hard time sending mine in for replacement knowing that they are going to be resold.
     
  8. Urban_Redneck

    Urban_Redneck New Member

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    If I read this correctly, they are sending out new pistols, not refurbs.

    I'll put forth one plausible scenario; Recall pistols are returned to the factory for refurbishing, "bad" frames will be destroyed and a new frame (with old serial #) installed on a refurbished (as needed) slide, and shipped back for sale.

    Since the serial #s are already cleared for import and the duty has been paid, it's an opportunity to re-coup some of the cost of the recall and get more pistols out in the market. I'll buy one ;)




    As a further update to our October 19, 2012 recall notice, Caracal USA, LLC is advising its customers that it has determined that the production tolerances in the grip frames of a very limited number of Caracal F and C pistols could possibly cause these pistols to fire if dropped onto a hard surface with a round in the chamber.

    In an effort to minimize the inconvenience to our customers, Caracal USA, LLC will exchange all affected pistols with brand new ones to avoid the delay associated with repairing and returning the pistols.

    Shipment of these new replacement pistols is expected to begin in late December 2012, and to be completed by January 2013. Shipment of the replacement pistols will be made in the order in which the pistols were returned to Caracal USA, LLC.

    We again apologize for any inconvenience, but the safety of our customers is of the utmost importance to Caracal USA, LLC. If you have any questions, or for further information, please visit http://www.caracal-usa.com, or call Caracal USA, LLC at (205) 655-7050.

    Read more: http://www.caracal-usa.com/press/Caraca ... -Update-2/
     
  9. Mark G.

    Mark G. New Member

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    The lady told me they are sending out new pistols to you when you return the recalled pistols. She also said the returned pistols would be sent back to UAE to be repaired, why I have no idea & did not ask her. She also said the returned pistols would be repaired & sold. Sig does this all the time with their CPO program, so I guess I don't see what the big deal is. You can have yours repaired if you want it will just take a long time because it is going back to UAE. She said Caracal knows people want their pistol ASAP so they thought the quickest way was to issue new pistols. Never the less we will have to wait & see exactly what happens.
     
  10. Urban_Redneck

    Urban_Redneck New Member

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    Since the frame is the registered part, the serial# are on the import (State Department) permit and duty (Customs) has already been paid, it doesn't make sense to import new frames. As you know, the serial # is engraved on the slide and frame, a new frame likely costs $5.00. Shipping 500 pistols AL to UAE, new frame, small parts allowance, function test, shipping 500 pistols UAE to AL, is likely no more than $50 unit.

    Then the math might go something like this SAI pays $150, sells to wholesaler@ $215, price to dealer $275, retail at $349.
    OR
    SAI pays $150, sells 50 units @ $225ea to Bud's, GrabaGun, Centerfire, etc retail at $329.

    Sort of like fantasy football/marketing... but, that's how I see it.

    :geek:
     
  11. Arizona Gunner

    Arizona Gunner New Member

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    We are all assuming the repaired pistols will be returned to the US... but why?

    It seems equally likely they could be offered at a bargain price in third world markets.

    Otherwise if they are returned with the original serial numbers, it will be an administrative pain in the neck from now on for both consumers and SAI to keep track and figure out whether a specific pistol in the original number series has been reworked or not.

    It would be a lot cleaner for Caracal to get them out of the US, and any remaining in the country could be assumed to be be "bad" if they are in the original number series.

    If they go that way, it might be worth keeping a close eye on news clips out of Africa etc. to see what they are banging away at each other with in a year or two!
     
  12. N.M.Edmands

    N.M.Edmands New Member

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    If the replacement pistols are not reassigned your original serial #, they cannot be returned to the owner, They will have to be sent to an FFL and a new 4473 form will have to be filled out to take possession. If the original #s are reassigned to the new pistols, the original pistols[serial numbered parts,slide,barrel, and receiver] to be destroyed or reassigned new #s to be resold in the US. This is just my understanding of the ATF, and I thought I was wrong once but I was just mistaken. :oops:
     
  13. Arizona Gunner

    Arizona Gunner New Member

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    I don't think so...

    ATF Ruling 74-20 says,
    Caracal can send replacements directly to the customer. After sending out a new pistol, they could do whatever they pleased with the original ones, and of course maintain a record of that; that would be a new transaction completely unrelated to the replacements.
     
  14. N.M.Edmands

    N.M.Edmands New Member

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    Thank you for that response and clarification. Sorry that it took me this long to see this, but when I posted ,I was on my way out the door with a collapsed lung.
    Just got home from the hospital and checked in.
    Damn, now I've been mistaken twice. :oops: ;)
     
  15. Arizona Gunner

    Arizona Gunner New Member

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    You let a little thing like a collapsed lung keep you off the forum?

    And here I thought you liked Caracals! Priorities, priorities...

    Seriously, I'm glad you are back up on your hind legs. I don't want to have to keep up Arizona's part in the forum single handed! :D
     
  16. N.M.Edmands

    N.M.Edmands New Member

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    Hell! Was'nt the lung kept me off, Banner MD had wi-fi, I was without a lap top. :cry: Thanks Gunner, I preciate' that. ;)
     
  17. jhb

    jhb Member

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    Glad you are okay Sir. Make sure you take care of yourself...someones got to guard that border.:)
     
  18. Auguste Capone

    Auguste Capone New Member

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    Glad you're OK man. :shock: